Notes for Jan 30

Jackson's The Lottery
1948

• women in society
• strict gender rolls 
• hutchinson is 
• The mob mentality
• there are dangers in just following the crowd
• 
  
• Christian Symbolism: 
• Holy Bible: Christianity as The Black Box: The Lottery
• The three legged stool represents the trinity

 

The Ones Who....

• happiness is only achieved by the inhuman treatment of another
• for the greater good!
• SalemO- Omelas

Similarities

• utopias might not be possible
• behind any perceived utopia there is some sort of suffering
• there is hope in The Ones.. because people walk away from the evil
• 
  

Question 3 Spoof

Venus and the Ark seems to me to be a spoof of the bible story of Noah and the Ark. While in the biblical story there are two of every species , one male and one female, there seems to be a very strange mixture of animals that move , "one hundred/ carefully counted insects,/ three almost new snakes,/ coiled in a cube,/ exactly fifty fish creatures/ in tanks," "fourteen white rats," and "fourteen black rats." Not only that but the fact that because the two humans that were picked were two men could represent her views that the human race should not reproduce as they were the reason behind the dystopia occurring on earth.

Question 3 Spoof

Venus and the Ark is a clear spoof because the story makes fun of how humanity is in crisis even though we have all this technology that could "save us all". Think about it, the original ark story was about how god didn't like what was on Earth and therefore tried to wipe out all its inhabitants and "start over". Well, that type of concept is happening in the poem EXCEPT, the "flood" in this case is humanity itself!

People are deadly, they have weapons, they have machines, they have missiles. The US has enough nukes to destroy the world 20x over, yet we live in a "peaceful society". The poem makes light of this fact that we could all die at any moment-we don't live in a peaceful society. Technology isn't always our friend. And we shouldn't depend on others, as in the Government, in a welfare state, to fix our problems. 

Question 3 - Spoof

Sexton calls this poem a "spoof" because of how she contrasts objects in her poem. The title "Venus and the Ark" starts off the spoof of this poem by referring to a deadly toxic planet, Venus, and a safe haven for war and destruction, the ark. As the poem goes on you come to find out that the "safe haven" of travel is actually a missile inside a missile, and that Venus, a planet that is deadly to the point of combustion if you enter its atmosphere, is actually the second Earth when the first one is destroyed. Coupled with the fact that people of Earth's press give the fantastic and mind-blowing news of sustainable life on another planet a total of 15 minutes of coverage until they are back to war. Then this poem is clearly as spoof on how people perceive importance and value.

Question 3 - Spoof

‘Venus and the ark’ is a spoof because it makes fun of man, science and technology.  The purpose of sending the missile to Venus was to collect scientific information that could possible benefit the world.  But, as a result, there is an all-out nuclear war and all life on Earth is destroyed.   It is clear that the poem alludes to the story of the Noah and the ark.  So, everything that was brought along on the missile acts as Noah and all the animals.  Quickly the two Ph.D.’s give up on the experiments and release everything, after realizing the futility of them.  And just at the two of them die, they see the first life come out of the seas of Venus.  So basically, man’s attempt to understand and master the universe is futile and nature will always be more powerful. 

The Poem as a Spoof

Continuing off of what Tony and Ben said earlier about how Anne Sexton's poem "Venus and the Ark", the poem emphasizes to mock the story of Noah's Ark with a modern twist. Unlike the idealistic view of humanity's survival in Evan Almighty, Anne Sexton states that humanity's apathy towards nature and restraint will be the end of all life. Sexton states that some of the innovation that mankind creates is not always for the better such as the atom bomb, missiles and the human trait of greed. Greed for oil and anarchy is encouraged by humanity's need for attention and self-destruction. As a result the PHDs are defamed since they hold the responsibility of progressing mankind and instead they are ready to destroy it. Like industrialists and Russian oil moguls, they hold the responsibilities of providing consumer goods or raw minerals respectively. Instead, for the most part they exploit the markets and the country's or industry's economic policies to make massive profits. In theory, they are supposed to be beneficial but sacrifice integrity for personal gain.
Similarly, the PHDs held the responsibility of warning mankind of the oncoming dangers but instead stood by and watched. Furthermore, they stood by and watched as the world burned (Dark Knight reference?). My final comment on this poem and its satiric nature is that as nature progressed and recovered on its own, the world could not learn by example. The bees, the plants and every other living being recovered and embraced life before the imminent apocalypse but the humanity destroyed itself. With or without regard for Earth's other inhabitants, humans ended the world as every other species tried to save it.

Question 3 for "Venus and the Ark"

The title of the poem indicates the intentions of a spoof. Sexton titles her poem “Venus and the Ark” as a spinoff of the Biblical story of Noah and the Ark. One similarity between both stories is the despaired situation of humanity and earth, which is culminated with the flood in the Bible and the “atom blasts” in Sexton’s poem. The differences lie with how the characters intend to rebuild a post-apocalyptic society. The Ph.D.’s in Sexton’s poem realize how hopeless mankind is and believe that only a new species of man will benefit in the future, whereas Noah planned on reestablishing society based on a following of the law of God.

Venus and the Ark

Venus and the Ark is a spoof because it is very similar to Noah and the Ark except it deals with issues of her time such as nuclear scare and space exploration.  The picture I got from reading the poem was two astronauts leaving earth in a rocket before the earth gets destroyed by the nuclear war.  The astronauts are trying to go to a distant planet and start a new life there. Unlike Noah and the Ark, Sexton makes her poem very dystopian and dark. Another issue of sexton’s time was women rights which make it seem like both the astronauts will be male. So even if the astronauts are successful in settling down, mankind will eventually meet its demise.

In Response to Question 2

The first stanza begins very monotonous, which makes sense since she lists off various details of little or no importance, just trivial numbers, and her voice portrays that well. She slows down when she gets to "like a sweet fat grape", helping the listener visualize the simile and let the image literally seep into the imagination. The rhetoric fails to become excited as the human race seemingly wipes itself out; rather, she maintains the monotony to emphasize the utter depression that takes over. The animals discover the wonders of a new planet, and regain freedom, which should be happy, but her voice remains somber, just like the scientists who cry despite the beautiful green planet in front of them. 

response to question 1

                I disagree with the argument that the animals and insects were strategically chosen simply because of their abundant reproduction abilities or because the Ph.D.’s wanted to test them. I think they were chosen to restart evolution, but this time on Venus instead of Earth. Sexton parallels the destruction of earth as a result of man with life flourishing on Venus. The speaker explains that the world ended after “rival nations, angry and oily, fired up their best atom blast”, emphasizing the human role in the annihilation of Earth. The Ph.D.’s understood the dystopia man created, and realized that if they were to start life on Venus, it would have to be done without humans, who would inevitably create another dystopia.  As the Ph.D.’s walk away, their goal becomes apparent as it is said they say, “This is the end. This is the last of a man like me.” Animals with less evolutionary development were chosen in hopes of that new species would evolve, different from those that evolved on earth, and adapt to the new environment. It is then that the “new fruit” can “drop”, symbolizing the hope for the type of utopia impossible for humans. 

Question 3

Anne Sexton’s poem “Venus and the Ark” is a spoof of the story of Noah’s Ark.  Instead of an ark, it is the missile that transports the animals to the new location, Venus.  In addition to alluding to Noah’s Ark, the author portrays the poem as a spoof by humorously exaggerating many situations.  For example, it is a tiny missile that results in the end of Earth. In the actual story, the purpose of the destruction was to get rid of evil and wickedness.  Since mankind is destroyed in the spoof, Sexton implies that humans represent the evil and wicked in the world.

Venus and the Ark - Question 3

I think Anne Sexton called her poem a spoof because she is mocking humanity. Venus was the ancient Roman goddess of love, beauty, and fertility, and was always depicted as a beautiful woman. The fact that the two humans in the poem were male ph.D.'s is Sexton's way of laughing at humanity, and through the use of this irony, makes the point that despite all of man's supposed intelligence, it still has a capacity for stupidity and basic oversight. This is even more obvious in the poem's juxtaposition of Venus, a symbol of love and beauty, and the war and atrocities that man commits on Earth. By the end of the poem, I think Sexton is, in a way, pointing out that man has both the capacity for creation and destruction, a point that implies that she has not completely lost faith in humanity.

Anne Sexton Spoof Question

I think Anne Sexton calls this poem a spoof because that's exactly what it sounds like. It seems like a dark, modernized version of the story of Noah's Ark. I don't know the story in great detail but it looks like the missile is the ark, the Ph.D.'s are the people (Noah and his wife), there are a set number of various creatures and supplies (similar to Noah taking two of each animal), and the atom blast that ended the last Earth war is the flood. When the Ph.D.'s and the other missile occupants set foot in their new home, it is very hopeful-as Noah and the rest of the Ark's passengers must have been when they first set foot on land, but this doesn't last. It seems like they were trying to play God and create a new better or perfect Earth by controlling certain variables. But just like the Earth is not perfect, neither is Venus.

Response to Question #1

I disagree with this post by Danielle. I do not think the two men “chose” life on Venus over life on Earth. The way I understand the poem is that the two men were going to Venus just for a study, maybe to see how the animals responded to life on Venus to verify that it was habitable for the future, not on a personal quest to find a utopia. In the poem, Earth isn't destroyed until after the men have already arrived on Venus, therefore they could not return to Earth because it was no longer habitable. They had no choice but to make things work as best as they could on the planet they were on. When they set out on their journey, they had no idea that they would be the last of the human race alive. 

Question Two

Most of the poem was in a monotone. It gave it a very boring appeal, but at the same time it also emphasized the parts of the poem that Sexton gave in a different tone of voice. When Sexton read "Venus is green" in a lighter, and happier tone. The tone that it was read in felt related to how the people on Earth (and Venus) were feeling. It seemed as if Venus being green sparked hope in a long period of gloom. This was then reinforced by the section at the end of the poem talking about the fish creatures that began to walk out of the sea.

Response to Question 2

I disagree with Greg's interpretation of the poem. There had to be a reason why the male Ph.D.'s were the only humans going to Venus, yet they brought so many animals along with them. I feel that the male Ph.D.'s believed humans were the reason for the creation of a dystopia. In my opinion VENUS IS GREEN means that there is hope and life on Venus, which is why I believe that Venus is a utopia. One question that comes to mind is why would Sexton make the title and story line similar to Noah and the Ark if the poem was not about trying to save life ? In both stories, a human or humans were placed in authority to save life which is why they fled away from the location in which disaster would take place so that they could be safe and still be surrounded by life.

Venus & the Ark response

At the start of the verbal reading of Venus and the Ark, Sexton mentions that her poem is "kind of a of a spoof". Spoof seems to be an interesting word of choice because it implies that at a certain level the poem was intended as humorous or jovial. I believe that Sexton referred to her poem as a spoof to call light obvious parody that resonates throughout the poem to Biblical references and posible mock the traditionally accepted belief in Christianity that God flooded the earth, ending humanity except just a single family to repopulate. 

The poem of the two PhDs (traveling in a rocket at the demise of the earth, seeking salivation along with other nonhuman creatures to bring to the new world) is a clear mimic of the Biblical figures of Noah and his family in the story of Noah and the Ark.  The spoof she might be referring to is that both PhDs in the end of the story are male, thus the end of the human race is inevitable. Perhaps she saw humor in the change from a hopefully ending found in the Biblical story to her own tragic ending on Venus. 

"Venus and the Ark" a spoof?

This dystopian poem has been called a spoof, but it is not a spoof in the same way that the "Scary Movies" are a spoof.  Current movie spoofs take a movie idea and add some humor, but usually take away from the meaning of the movie, while this poem "Venus and the Ark" may still be a spoof because it has obvious allusions to Noah and the Ark, the animals, and the name of the story.  The poem also has some characteristics of a spoof because of how such a tiny thing such as flying to Venus causes the end of the human race, which is possible, but probably a bit of an exaggeration.  However, Anne Sexton still presents a rather serious topic of how even when man is gone, the universe will still keep turning.

Response to Danielle, Jan. 25

I disagree with Danielle's idea that because "VENUS IS GREEN" that means it's a utopia. Venus is not a utopia in this poem. Sexton only alludes to the fact that maybe the new lifeforms will be able to achieve utopia (which is in itself a stretch). Sexton doesn't give any indication that Venus is a utopia considering its environment and life consists of what we consider vermin and two men. There are certainly aren't any problems there like on Sexton's Earth, but it doesn't have the sentient and intelligent life to really be a utopia. To be a utopia I think you need to have creatures that are smart and powerful enough to mess it up but those creatures succeed in preventing that.

Venus and the Ark response - Jan 25.

I disagree with Danielle's statements :
    This shows that the two men were intentionally chosen so that only the animals could reproduce.     It also seems as if the two men were Earth's last hope for life, but instead of choosing Earth to remain on, they decided to start life on another planet.
   From my point of view, the start of life on Venus was not last ditch attempt at man to survive or life to continue. There isn't any mention to the Earth itself dying. I read it more as a grandiose science experiment to see if humanity had progressed to the a divine status by being able to replicate the start of life on a different planet.  The line "VENUS IS GREEN" was received with jubilation on earth with parades and excess. Maybe, these two scientists were mean to later be joined and an entire colony would be established on Venus, an Earth 2.0 so to speak . However, in the aftermath of the man made apocalypse, I feel the tone of the poem switches a lot because the reader thinks more being an attempt to remedy apocalypse rather than start it. If humans were trying to pull of a last ditch attempt to save life, then they certainly would have worked together with other countries, and if the world was already in apocalypse than news of the such a small glimmer of hope would probably not had the same reception. 
   Humanity is selfish and if life were to be established on another planet, human kind would be the first species to have planned reproduction. I think if this was a post-apocalyptic test, then it would be naive to think that any human would not want humanity to be the primary subject aboard the "missile".


   Sexton's oral presentation of the poem is somewhat monotone, but there was a driving emotion behind her voice. She seemed particularly "excited" when reciting "VENUS IS GREEN" as if to emphasize this line, when such emotion doesn't seem to reoccur till the last lines when the fish walks out of the see. 


   I think Sexton calls her poem a spoof due to the last lines saying:

Until they saw, over the mists

of Venus, two fish creatures stop

on spangled legs and crawl

from the belly of the sea.

And from the planet park

they heard the new fruit drop.

The fish crawls out of the see just like it did several million years ago. Even though these two PhD's try to restart life, it seems like they just have Venus's evolution on course to work like Earth. Maybe the line will change though. Although maybe not humans, who is to say that the next iteration of high intelligence will not be any better than humans at taking care of the planet. However, with the overabundance of snakes this new fish-land hybrid has a much higher chance of being eaten than the first time around. 
Finally I think it is a spoof on human nature how the absolutely enormous miracle of science of life on another planet is greeted with a nuclear holocaust. Sexton is simply laughing at the idea that if man doesn't have it, no one can. And these jealous other countries decide that the annihilation of the planet is worth not having a single other country's scientific experiment. 

Jan 25 In-Blog Class

To answer question 2, I disagree with this post. I think it's pretty clear that the author's intention is to present humans as short-sighted and too detached from the world around them. As Greg pointed out in a different post, the PhDs are said to be apathetic, even in the face of such novel and terrifying events as the destruction of everyone and everything they'd ever known, and in living in a literal "Garden of Eden." These scientists, the last remnants of Earth society, are so detached and self-absorbed that they feel nothing, not sorrow over what they've lost or wonderment at the new world, and when they finally do reflect on their situation, years later, they're still focused on themselves, "This is the last of a man like me."

I don't think it's a coincidence that the final, hopeful note of the poem comes when the final humans are about to die.

Question 3

I disagree with Greg; I do not believe that Venus is a dystopia. However, I do not this is a utopia either.

Anne sexton portrays Earth as the dystopia. There humans progress to the point that even when another planet, Venus, is made habitable, the new only spends fifteen minutes on the topic. Then almost immediately after broadcasting the good news, the different governments destroy the world in nuclear war.

In contrast, there is neither anything terrible or perfect about Venus; it is a new beginning. Venus was a place where the inhabitants can evolve on their own without anymore human involvement as soon as the Ph.D.'s die. The new creatures can make mistakes like the humans, or they can find a better way to live with less problems.

Jan 25. Post

Anne Sexton may have called her poem “Venus and the Ark” a spoof because it mocks the relationship between the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War (more specifically, the Space Race). I’m not exactly sure when this poem was written, but there are several parallels. Both achievements took place in space. Thankfully, the situation outlined in the poem didn’t happen. She was trying to portray how ridiculous it would be if the entire planet was destroyed due to a trait as childish as jealousy. One nation achieves a great scientific leap that would have benefited all mankind, but a rival nation gets jealous and starts a nuclear war. It doesn’t make any sense! This is exactly what Sexton wants readers to conclude: that the whole situation was ludicrous and insane.

Venus and the Ark - spoof

Sexton calls this poem a spoof because she is mocking the story of Noah's Ark.  In Noah's Ark, the people get on the ship to be saved from the flood brought about by wickedness in mankind.  God's intention was not to destroy people, but to destroy wickedness and sin.  In a similar way (but not for the same reasons), the two Ph. D.'s  escaped the purge of Earth, but had no way of continuing the human race, as Noah had.

I found it interesting that the only other people Noah could bring were his family, meaning that to reproduce, they would have to incest.  To mock this, and sort of challenge society's ideas of sexuality, Sexton subtly suggests homosexuality by having the only two people on Venus be male.

Unlike in Noah's Ark, humankind on Venus did not survive.  The two men died off, only to see

 two fish creatures stop

on spangled legs and crawl

from the belly of the sea.

This evolution suggests that there will someday be humans again on Venus.  Although it can be concluded that the new humans will live in a utopia through the positive connotations of fruit when the men "heard the new fruit drop," this is not the case.  The new fruit, acting as a symbol for the new mankind, can rot and spoil.  Thus, Sexton implies that it is inevitable that dystopia will form again.  This relates back to the poem being a spoof, because in Noah's Ark, it was implied that all sin and wickedness were wiped out.

Blog Post for Wednesday Jan. 25

Question 3

Anne Sexton takes the opportunity in her poem “Venus and the Ark” to satirize the direction in which the world has evolved. The very first line, “the missile to launch a missile” immediately makes it clear that Sexton intends to mock the absurdities that we humans commit. She uses oxymoronic speech and lists of oddities to demonstrate the depth of our illogicality. As the poem progresses, she shifts her focus on the atrocities of man. A nuclear war destroying the Earth begins immediately after the announcement of the successful mission to Venus. Ultimately, the entire poem acts as a platform to dramatize both the thoughtless and overly-thought actions that provide mankind with the ability and the idiocy to destroy itself. 

-Forrest Fesmire

Group C: Venus and the Ark

When reading “Venus and the Ark” the ending struck me more than other parts of the poem. The last lines :

"But the two men,

that last morning of death, before

the first of light, watched the land

of Venus, its sweetless shore,

and thought, “This is the end.

This is the last of a man like me.”

Until they saw, over the mists

of Venus, two fish creatures stop

on spangled legs and crawl

from the belly of the sea.

And from the planet park

they heard the new fruit drop."

Particularly the section where the two men think that humankind were going to be the last intelligent creatures to exist. Sexton is trying to make a point here that mankind has an arrogance about its own intelligence. Sexton is pointing out the common belief held by many people that humans are the epitome of creation. That idea is laced into our religion and actions on this earth that you can see everyday. A prevalent heightening of our own importance. Sexton counters this right away by giving the men a glimpse of evolution. A sight of a new intelligent being that may surpass man's accomplishments and may not have the flaws. Notice she doesn't give any indication that the "fish creature" will be any better than men. She only gives indication that that new lifeforms will take our place. 

  

The very last line is also indicative of Sexton's message. The "new fruit drop" seems to be a biblical allusion to the Tree of knowledge of good and evil. By saying there is another "tree" Sexton is saying that there can be other intelligent lifeforms and also that we are not a special case of divine creation and that we are the one and only great creation. Sexton is sticking with the notion that men are not as able and astute as they make themselves out to be. Sexton is also possibly alluding to a repeat of mankind's failures by starting this new intelligence off the same way we did. Kind of a history repeats itself situation maybe. 

 I also agree with Katz's last post about the brief period of peace and celebration on Earth. Sexton here, like Katz said, is referencing the short-term memory of the media. As an addition to that, Sexton is at the same time referencing the media's boredom of happy, successful things. They only took 15 minutes out of their weather forecast to talk about such an extraordinary thing! In modern day this would perfectly apply to the lack of interest or understanding of science prevalent in the world or more specifically the U.S.

To be completed by ALL students by midnight Wednesday Jan. 25

Since we will not be meeting in class tomorrow to discuss Anne Sexton's "Venus and the Ark," please answer ONE of the following questions here on the course blog in about 100 words.

1. Find a statement you disagree with in one of Group C's blog posts about “Venus and the Ark.”  Tell us why you disagree and what evidence you can provide to prove your point. 

2. Do a rhetorical analysis of Anne Sexton’s oral communication in the recitation of her poem. 

3. Why does Sexton call her poem a spoof?

If you do not answer one of these questions (thoughtfully!) by midnight, Wednesday, Jan. 25, you will be counted absent.  

Don't forget to go straight to the Homer Rice room in the library for Friday's class!

Another point to make about the phrase, "VENUS IS GREEN" is how people back on Earth received the message.

And parades assembled,

the loud earth tellers spent

all fifteen minutes on it, even

shortened their weather forecast.

Sexton spends all of one measly line on saying that Earth was proud of its achievement. They held parades and all the "loud earth tellers" (what I assume today means talking heads) proclaimed the message. However, that only lasted 15 minutes until the whole of Earth was back at war with each other. I think here she is trying to point out that whenever something absolutely extraordinary happens on Earth, people and media only give it a fraction of their attention.

Group C Venus and...

The "VENUS IS GREEN" line is the communication between the PHD's and whoever is running the research project. The Earth doesn't get blown up until after.
I actually would argue that Venus is a dystopia at this point. Dystopia's form when striving for utopia. I know it isn't in my favor that the human race blew itself up in the poem, but humans aren't all bad. I actually like humans. And if I were going to live in a perfect world, it wouldn't be populated with snakes, rats, and weird fish creatures. Venus could've been the human race's second chance. And, the PHD's could've left a VERY stern warning to future generations to avoid what happened to Earth. But alas, they were both dudes. So instead, they waste away, purposeless, on a planet exploding with new life.

Group C: Venus and the Ark

One thing I noticed after analyzing the poem was that there are three words in all capital letters which state, "VENUS IS GREEN." What does this mean? From my interpretation I think it means Venus is the new source of life, because when I think of green I think of grass and leaves, which means life and growth. This is why I believe Venus is a utopia. I interpret Earth as a dystopia in the poem because of the lines,

"The place became crater on each side,

sank down to its first skull,

shedding forests, oceans, dried

dones and neons, as it fell through

time like a forgotten pitted stone. "

These lines present the image of life coming to an end.

Group C: Venus and The Ark

I agree that the author intended for the human race to die out. She clarified that both of the PHD's were male and highlighted that they could not reproduce.
But I just wanted to say that they didn't necessarily plan on starting their own little utopia. Plus they didn't choose Venus over Earth. There really wasn't an Earth to go back to.
In fact, my impression from the poem was that the two scientists didn't even intend on creating a utopia free of human imperfections. The reason that they let all of the animals out of their cages is because the scientists no longer had any reason to keep going with their tests (the third stanza is where this takes place). She writes that they become "listless" after about seven months, which literally means apathetic or indifferent. Another great set of lines is,

"Old and withered, two Ph.D.’s

from Earth hobbled slowly back

to their empty balloon, crying alone

for sense, for the troubling lack

of something they ought to do."
This really stood out to me on my second read through. If the entire human race except for you and another person of the same gender as you, what would you do with your time? There's really no point to anything they do. They realize that and then just give up. 

Group C: Venus and the Ark

This poem has a religious meaning, just as Noah and the Ark did. In both stories the human places an animal in a type of vehicle, which is done to avoid the end of life. It is mentioned that it took seven months for life to flourish on Venus. The seven months relate to the seven days it took God to create Earth on which the seventh day he rested. In the first six months, the animals could fit in their cages, but finally in the seventh month it was time for them to abandon their cages and spread out among Venus.

Group C: Venus and the Ark

In response to Ali's last post, I personally believe those animals were chosen because when they reproduce their offspring do not come in small amounts, but abundant amounts. This would allow life on Venus to flourish.

Group C: Venus and the Ark

I agree with Katz' opinion about choosing two men. In the poem it is discussed that all the animals grew and reproduced. This shows that the two men were intentionally chosen so that only the animals could reproduce. It also seems as if the two men were Earth's last hope for life, but instead of choosing Earth to remain on, they decided to start life on another planet. Venus was the new source of life in which the male Ph.D.'s wanted to start a utopia and leave Earth, which had become a dystopia.

Group C: "Venus and the Arc"

I think that the simultaneous end of Earth and beginning of life was to say that there is hope and the new evolutionary, intelligent species can do better than the humans did.

Also, the "arc" she portrays didn't bring the animals that most people think of when they think arc (two of each species). Instead the "two male PH.D.'s" brought "one hundred/ carefully counted insects,/ three almost new snakes,/ coiled in a cube,/ exactly fifty fish creatures/ in tanks," "fourteen white rats," and "fourteen black rats."  Why those animals?

Group C: Venus and the Ark Response to Katz

Anne Sexton's decision to make the two "PHD's" male may have had that profound meaning. But, within the poem, the human race really didn't plan on ending itself. The two PHD's may have just been the leading astronauts on the project of making Venus habitable. The people of earth didn't blow themselves until after the PHD's had reported their success.
I think it's really cool to imagine what it would be like to be one of the last two humans alive. It's pretty heavy stuff.
Also, the death of Earth in this poem occurs simultaneously with the birth of life on another planet. I thought that was noteworthy.

Group C - Venus and the Ark

Interesting to know that she was depressed. This may shed light on the underlying theme of war and dystopia that seemed to be alluded to happening on Earth prior to the "ark". In the poem she talks about how two men were picked for the mission and sent to Venus. I think she picked two men because she didn't feel (in the poem that is) that humans were necessarily "good" for a planet. Thus by picking two men evolution would take its course without humans there to ruin the planet as they did with the now cratered Earth. Furthermore she points out the fact that it is the "las[t] of men" in the ending stanza.

Group C - "Venus and the Ark"

Anne Sexton began writing as a part of her therapy treatment for depression in 1955. Although her depression was never cured, I think that the hopeful ending of the poem (the "fish creatures") shows that the poetry might have helped lessen it.

Group B-Response to Cathy

While I do love sarcasm, I feel that it was not entirely *sarcastic* in its sense. Maybe there was a hint of mockery in his notion of some unlikely event but keep in mind that this is a dystopia- maybe the salmon symbolizes some form of guidance? He does follow the salmon's journey up the river. It's a stretch, but then again, I was never good at interpreting poetry nor do I think that there is a correct interpretation. 

Group B- Long time ago cont.

Something else about Silko's poem is that it shows how Westerners view other societies. Like I said before, we see the world as something we can conquer and own because we have removed ourselves from the natural world.  We "see no life", we "fear the world" and will "destroy what [we] fear", and we "will take this world from ocean to ocean." While many other cultures embrace the natural world, we try to control it. 

Powwow response

I disagree with the argument that the poem does not reflect dystopian ideals. The speaker is unable to forgive until conditions have been met, although they are unlikely to be fulfilled. I further disagree with the statement that the poem lacks a dystopian tone based on the last two lines of the poem, “I must forgive and so I shall when I am dancing with my tribe during the powwow at the end of the world.” The speaker is not saying this with rejoice, but rather complacently. The speaker has come to the understanding that he has no choice but to accept his fate. He is stuck in a hopeless situation and realizes that he should simply accept his fate, so he chooses to when “dancing with [his] tribe.”

It is also important to look at the rhetorical devices employed by the author and how they enhance his argument. The most apparent device is the use of anaphora, repetition of the same word or phrase at the beginning of each sentence. The repetition allows the audience to understand the speaker’s sense of despair and the inevitability of his situation. He continues with reasons for which he will forgive, almost solidifying the audience’s understanding that the previous will never actually occur. Alexie uses the point of view of the poem, a single Native American, to speak for the entire Native American population to which the suppressive force of governmental systems has shafted, and combined with the historical context of the poem employs pathos. The symbols of the dam and the salmon directly correlate to the rigid, structured government and the free-spirited Native American culture, respectively.  

I think the most interesting comment made though, is that while the poem contains many dystopian themes, it is not foreshadowing an “end of the world”, but rather reflecting upon one. While Alexie speaks of Native American life on a reservation, this poem can be easily applied to early Native American and US Government encounters. It almost creates the idea that the world is ending, because it has been deteriorating for so long.

Group B- Long time ago

Andrew, I agree that Leslie Silko doesn't like white people. But I think she is also angry about all the other people that came to America and made the Native Americans leave. She refers to Asians and Africans when she says "Some had slanty eyes others had black skin."

The story the last witch tells is also pointing out the Europeans' materialism. The Native Americans saw themselves as part of the Earth and nature whereas the European settlers saw the Earth and its land as something they could claim and own. And this story does seem like a warning, but it also seems like that witch is blaming the changes on witchery. The first stanza says "And this world might have gone on like that except for one thing: witchery." Then later in the witch's story she says "Set in motion now set in motion by our witchery set in motion to work for us." Is Silko blaming Native Americans for imposing this destruction on themselves?

Did anyone else notice the stanza where the word whirling is repeated looks kind of like a whirlpool/tornado type thing? I thought that was pretty cool.

group B - Long Time Ago

First off, Leslie Marmon Silko clearly does not like white people.  But the poem is a commentary on Western culture and its effect on the Native American people.  White people coming to the Americas was the worst thing that could possible happen to the Native Americans which, in some ways, true. 

The poem is told as a prediction made by a witch.  The use of witches in the poem is important because they are used to show how horrible white people are towards the Native Americans.  Witches are viewed as horrible creatures and pure evil, but the fact that what white people are and will do scares them so much just goes to show how bad the Europeans are. 

The dystopian aspect comes from the fact that the white people will come and destroy the Native American’s world.  The poem does talk about how before there were white people, the world wasn’t perfect, but it wasn’t bad.  But when the Europeans come, there will be death and disease.  But what sets this poem apart from other dystopian literature, is that other writing usually serves as a warning of things to come, this poem is clearly talking about the past.  I think the poem is really a reminder.